Aug, 2025
Season Finale with Clive Grinyer: Redesigning Your Thinking
To put it simply: if you’re human, this episode is for you.
💡 “When we make a decision, we are in fact designing. And if we are making that decision without considering the human being, then that’s a poor decision.” – CliveGrinyer
We couldn’t have dreamed up a better guest to close out this season of The Forward Podcast: Rethink than Clive Grinyer — one of the leading voices in service design and author of the brand-new book Redesigning Thinking: How Service Design is Solving Our 21st Century Challenges.
Clive’s career spans some of the most fascinating corners of design:
- Co-founding consultancy Tangerine with JonyIve
- Senior leadership roles at Cisco, Samsung, and Orange
- Director of Design at the UK Design Council (2001–2003)
- Leading service design at Barclays, transforming customer experience
- Teaching Service Design at the RCA
From physical products to digital interfaces to entire customer journeys, Clive’s work has always been anchored in one thing: making design genuinely serve people.
Episode Chapters:
00:00 – Welcome & Introduction Aziza introduces Clive and the theme of the episode.
01:30 – The Moment Clive Discovered Design Clive shares the story of wanting to cheer people up with murals and how he found his path into design.
04:45 – Early Lessons from a Dress Shop: The magical experience of his grandmother’s boutique and learning the theatre of service.
09:00 – What Is Design, Really? Clive gives his current definition of design and why it’s about more than aesthetics.
13:30 – From Human-Centred to Humanity-Centred Design How “Project Love” explored designing for empathy and connection.
18:15 – The Most Outdated Thinking in Business Today Clive on the dangers of speed, agile gone wrong, and poor leadership habits.
24:00 – Why Now Is a Crucial Turning Point From Gen Z’s purpose-driven mindset to the rise of AI and the role of creativity.
26:45 – What You Can Do Today to Rethink Design Actionable advice for individuals and organizations to redesign their thinking.
30:55 – The Best Examples of Great Service Design From Apple to Gov.uk — real-world examples of systems that just work.
38:30 – Why Change Is So Hard in Banking and Business The painful truth about transformation and why startups often miss the mark
43:00 – Final Reflections: Advice to My Future Self Clive reflects on patience, empathy, and what he’d tell his younger self.
Whether your goal is business growth, social impact, or simply building stronger relationships with your customers, this episode (and Clive’s book) is packed with accessible insights, stories, and tools you can use right away.
Link to buy the book! Redesigning Thinking: How Service Design is Solving Our 21st Century Challenges
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About The Forward Podcast: Rethink – When the old answers don’t fit, it’s time for new questions.
Rethink is a new season of the award-winning Forward Podcast built around slowing down, questioning assumptions, and sitting longer in the problem stage – before rushing to solutions.
Too often, businesses cling to what they know, hiding behind the old “this is how we’ve always done it” line. It’s the fastest way to kill diversity of thinking, new ideas, and meaningful change.
This series is about rethinking what’s broken: outdated products, workplaces stuck in the past, leadership resisting change, and tech that no longer serves the people using it.
In each episode, we sit with rethinkers: founders, creators, strategists, and innovators, who are challenging norms and building better ways forward. From redesigning shopping experiences to making digital finance more accessible, we explore how slowing down to ask better questions leads to stronger, more human-centered futures. Because solving yesterday’s problems with yesterday’s solutions won’t get us where we need to go.
Slow down. Look closer. Build better.
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